In August 2010, you started Nikenme Radio* (Radio from the Second Pub). Why did you do that?

*Nikenme Radio

　An internet radio show hosted by ZUN and Okonogi Tetsurou from January 2010.

ZUN：

　I wanted to change myself from being ‘the ZUN who makes games’ in the public eye. If I could do something other than Touhou, it would be another distinctive element that makes me who I am.

hiroyuki：

　When you say, ‘by doing something else’, you have an image in mind?　

ZUN：

 The ZUN Beer* that you and I made is a good example. Not only does it allow me to express myself, it can also be connected to Touhou.

　I have ambitions to open my own bar one day and it can be related to Touhou as well. I would rather see my bar recognized as ‘ZUN’s Bar’ and not ‘The Pub of the Guy Who Made Touhou’. If I want to make that happen, I have to put myself out there, get on Twitter, and start showing up at streaming events.

　But I’m not doing anything unique. Everybody’s thinking the same thing these days, and they’re working towards their goal in their own way.

*ZUN Beer
The ZUN beer is sold at the Niconico Chokaigi conventions alongside hiroyuki’s own beer. Its first appearance was at Niconico Chokaigi 2012, and since then it is a regular drink to buy.

While you are certainly correct, you were doing this long before many people realized that this is what they should be doing.

ZUN：

　I wonder if I was too early. When Nikenme Radio first aired, it was on USTREAM.

※USTREAM

　The US-based streaming site was founded in 2007 and was acquired by IBM in 2016 to become IBM Cloud Video, a paid service for businesses. Nikenme Radio started on USTREAM in 2010 and later moved to YouTube in 2016.

Going back to the original games, there was a gap between Imperishable Night and Mountain of Faith. Did you ever think of that as a break?

ZUN：

I made Scarlet Devil, Perfect Cherry Blossom, and Imperishable Night as a trilogy. And then, I made Touhou Fuujinroku ~ Mountain of Faith, Touhou Chireiden ~ Subterrranean Animism*, and Touhou Seirensen ~ Undefined Fantastic Object** as another trilogy. I knew that I was going to make a trilogy when I started working on Mountain of Faith.

　But as I was working on this new trilogy, I started to have doubts: ‘What am I going to do with my life now?’, ‘Should I do something new now that I’ve left the corporate world?’

hiroyuki：

　What made you feel like you needed to change?

ZUN：

　I got bored, haha. I got bored of myself and I was worried if people would be interested in me doing the same thing over and over again. Even though Touhou is popular these days, I don’t think it can go on forever.

hiroyuki：

　You’re quite the worrywart, huh.

What was your answer to these anxieties?

ZUN：

After Undefined Fantastic Object came out, I think there was a period where I did something else.

Yes. In fact, if we follow the numbering system for the main games, there is a two year gap between Undefined Fantastic Object (August 2009) and Touhou Shinreibyou ~ Ten Desires* (August 2011).  Double Spoiler ~ Touhou Bunkachou** and Great Fairy Wars ~ Touhou Sangetsuei*** came out during this time and they had unusual game mechanics.

ZUN：

　That was the time when I had all these doubts, yeah. I started to think differently when Subterranean Animism came out.

　I was always thinking about what the next story should be until I stopped. I didn’t know what I was going to do until bam, Subterranean Animism came out.

　This game was released in the year of the Touhoku earthquake, when many people started to change their ways. I decided to work on games without planning ahead. I’m not sure when I’ll stop doing this. For now, this is how I’ve changed my routine: if there’s something I want to make, I’ll make it.

And it’s important to keep making games, I suppose?

ZUN：

　It was a perfect time to change old habits. For the last eight years, I’ve been trying to continue working. I’ve always made a game every year until that moment, but it’s time for me to change the pace to a game every two years.

hiroyuki：

　I thought a game a year would make more sense.

ZUN：

　I could definitely push myself and keep the old schedule, but life events happen when I’m not making games. I got married, had a child, and another child during those periods.

You were indeed making a game every two years until Touhou Kikeijuu ~ Wily Beast and Weakest Creature* in 2019. Will your next game come out in 2021?

*Touhou Kikeijuu ~ Wily Beast and Weakest Creature is the 17th Touhou game and came out at August 2019 Comiket. Borrowing powers from beast spirits, Reimu, Marisa, and Youmu must fight the beast spirits from hell. Players can choose a wolf, an otter, or a sea eagle spirit as their shot types. (Image from STEAM)

ZUN：

　Gosh, I wonder. I can’t imagine what the future will be like since I stopped having plans, haha.

hiroyuki：

　When people first hear about Touhou, it’s usually through music. They probably think you’re a musician by profession.

ZUN：

　My occupation is a programmer. I’ve never thought of myself as a musician. Whenever I’m invited to music events, I feel like I don’t belong there.

hiroyuki：

　Why do you think you’re not a musician?　

ZUN：

　I see myself as making video game music, not music by itself. Everything relates back to games. When I make music, it’s to make games more exciting and seeing my music appear in a game makes me happy as a composer.

　When people listen to my music, I imagine they’re picturing the game screen in their minds. They’re thinking about the characters in the game and the emotions associated with them. That’s why I don’t think I work from the music alone.

hiroyuki：

　If you were commissioned to make music, what would happen?　

ZUN：

　I get a lot of requests. Even if it looks fun, I don’t think I can do it, so I turn them down.

hiroyuki：

　I’ve gotten the impression that composing music is easier than writing a manuscript.

ZUN：

　Games have to be good in order to have good music, so I’m afraid if I can’t make the game myself. Composing a song by itself requires courage. Almost like taking off the mask, haha.

hiroyuki：

　Why not compose music for something else? Like a school anthem?

ZUN：

　That might be fun to do, haha.

To be continued in Part 10…

 

Interviewer: Saitou Daichi

Writer: Seinosuke Itou

Photographer: Fukuoka Ryouji (GEKKO)

Translator: Kastel

Editor: Nimrod